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<p>Dear George: I never said that IP is the central problem here.
But what is the central problem?<br>
</p>
<p>I haven't read very carefully the entire exchange and didn't see
an answer. <br>
</p>
<p>I give mine: The problem is treating data as private property.
Was it clarified already?<br>
</p>
<p>As for my previous comment -- I do believe that treating data as
private property is based on IP related concepts. Therefore
problems with data sharing, etc. described here cannot be solved
while IP is in picture.</p>
<p>If you disagree with the conclusion -- start with premises.</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/14/19 07:31, George Alter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB4FXQA3cXkxO5eHkHb-dSB7xkDHpnCnK8yq1ikOqKGJcyMPNQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">I must disagree with Anatoly. Copyrights and IP
policies are not the central problem here.
<div>
<div>It is often a lack of respect for local researchers, who
are considered only as sources of data.</div>
<div>An African researcher told me that she receives messages
from people at European and American universities that say:
"Let's collaborate. First, you send us all of your data."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kassim's comments about creating true partnerships from
the beginning of projects are very important. Projects that
build such partnerships produce much better science too.</div>
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<div dir="ltr"> George
<div>---------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>
<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">George Alter</font></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:12.8px">Research
Professor, ICPSR</span><br>
</div>
<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">Professor of
History, University
of Michigan</font></div>
<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">PO Box 1248,
Ann Arbor, MI
48106-1248</font></div>
<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">Tel:
734-478-0783 Fax:
734-647-8200</font></div>
<div><font
face="georgia,
serif">Email: <a
href="mailto:altergc@umich.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">altergc@umich.edu</a></font></div>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 6:27
AM anatoly <<a href="mailto:av@total-knowledge.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">av@total-knowledge.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>I don't know what "data capitalism" could mean
conceptually. But it seems to be clear that we deal here
with a direct derivative of IP concept(s). Copyrights,
patents, trademarks, etc. are in opposition to the very
foundation of humanity in general, art and science -- in
particular. If and when IP monsters be gone the
derivatives must die along.<br>
</p>
<p>Anatoly Volynets<br>
</p>
<div>On 10/11/19 15:46, Mwitondi, Kassim wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> This is an instance of a biased
data ownership. A few years ago I was working with a young
African researcher on an agro-forestry research project.
No sooner had we started than I realused that her centre
had only some descriptive statistics but no direct access
to the biomass data which she and her colleagues had spent
months collecting from two islands! The vast chunk of the
data had left with the development partners at the end of
the project. It turned out, nobody at the centre had any
knowledge or pressing interest to pursue the data and
there was already new initiatives to run another project,
which in my view was almost a duplicate of the first, but
this time with a different development partner.<br>
<br>
To cut the long story short, I have come across several
cases of data ownership of this nature and my view is that
it doesn't help much coining terminologies, as the best
that can be achieved is a blame culture. Would I call that
data capitalism? Colonialism? Feudalism? I never would! I
have learnt, over the years, that proper problem
identification is a major stride in working out the
solution. Blaming it on one part marginalizing the other
when it comes to data generation, access and ownership is
stripping everyone on the project of a fundamental
responsibility in managing the project.<br>
<br>
Apparently, the problem starts with the project write-up.
If the project recipient is fully engaged from project
initiation to delivery, they surely should know how to
access the data, as that is a key project deliverable. My
personal experience is that there are a several factors
that lead to this kind of situation. One, many project
ideas are top-down, that is, they are not developed within
the working conditions of the recipients. Two, there are
often many gaps in engagement, mainly caused by near
disparate motives on many projects, with the funders,
experts and recipients not necessarily having the same
perception, motives or knowledge. Put the two together and
add the determined project timeline, you have a near
disaster. But the tripartite interests to run projects
continues and we are creating a vicious cycle. What is the
solution? It must start from the recipients who must align
each incoming project with their respective development
strategies. They must present themselves as equal partners
in defining the project problem and tracking and measuring
its outcomes. They should be able to quantifiable identify
what worked and what didn't and any there should be
national institutions charged with such responsibility. I
could be writing all night, I would rather stop here for
now.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
KSM<br>
<br>
Dr Kassim S. Mwitondi<br>
Sheffield Hallam University<br>
Faculty of Science, Technology and Arts<br>
Communication & Computing Research Centre<br>
9410 Cantor Building, City Campus<br>
153 Arundel Street<br>
Sheffield, S1 2NU<br>
United Kingdom<br>
Tel. +44-114-2256914 (Direct)<br>
Tel. +44-114-2255555 (General)<br>
<a
href="https://www.shu.ac.uk/about-us/our-people/staff-profiles/kassim-mwitondi"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.shu.ac.uk/about-us/our-people/staff-profiles/kassim-mwitondi</a><br>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
CODATA-international <a
href="mailto:codata-international-bounces@lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><codata-international-bounces@lists.codata.org></a>
on behalf of Trimpact - Niek <a
href="mailto:niek@trimpact.nl" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><niek@trimpact.nl></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 October 2019 18:12:22<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Ernie Boyko' <a
href="mailto:boykern@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><boykern@yahoo.com></a>;
'CODATA International' <a
href="mailto:codata-international@lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><codata-international@lists.codata.org></a>;
'Suchith Anand' <a
href="mailto:Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CODATA-international] Digital
Feudalism</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div lang="NL">
<div>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Dear all,</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">This is indeed a huge problem. I
also recently learned that information data from
NGOs are best perhaps shared with some ministries
in Bamako, Mali, but not within a region where the
work is being done. This implies that local
decision makers remain dependant on the
information/data stream back from the ministries
which may take some months, if ever. This can
never be the purpose of the work executed.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">Since most of the projects are
financed with public funding for the benefit of de
people in the given (development) country and
data/information belong in fact to the real funds
provider of the work (i.e. tax payers), claims of
intellectual property rights that data belong to
the project executors seem not applicable.
Consequently, data and other information (e.g.
lessons learned) should be shared at large to the
population and other relevant stakeholders to
avoid duplication of efforts.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB">A discussion worthwhile to be
continued.</span></p>
<p><span lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p><span>Kind regards,</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span style="color:black">Dr.
Niek van Duivenbooden</span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
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<p> </p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p><b>Van:</b> CODATA-international <a
href="mailto:codata-international-bounces@lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><codata-international-bounces@lists.codata.org></a>
<b>Namens </b>Ernie Boyko<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> vrijdag 11 oktober 2019 15:26<br>
<b>Aan:</b> CODATA International <a
href="mailto:codata-international@lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><codata-international@lists.codata.org></a>;
Suchith Anand <a
href="mailto:Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [CODATA-international]
Digital Feudalism</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB">Thank
you Suchith,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB">I have
not heard that term before but I did run
into related term this week at the
DDI-CODATA workshop here in Dagstuhl. The
term is Data Colonialism. This often
happens when a foreign entity (e.g., a
development agency/project).e data are
collected in a developing country and are
taken out of the country. They will leave
behind some summary tables but will take the
rich data and metadata away. This makes it
difficult to develop the data analysis and
management skills within the country. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB">Thanks
for the message.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydp112ffa72yui_3_13_0_1_1383570742306_21877">
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydp112ffa72yui_3_13_0_1_1383570742306_21877">
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydp112ffa72yui_3_13_0_1_1383923334020_29546">
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydp112ffa72yui_3_13_0_1_1383923334020_29543">
<p style="background:white"><span
lang="EN-GB">Cheers, Ernie</span><span
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
lang="EN-GB">+1-613-290-2804</span><span
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><b><span
lang="EN-GB">Larrimac: More than
a golf course!</span></b><span
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><b><span
lang="EN-GB">CODATA: Making data
work together to improve science
to support decision makers.</span></b><span
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydpc035e2ddyahoo_quoted_1652527351">
<div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"
lang="EN-GB">On Friday, October 11, 2019,
08:51:29 AM EDT, Suchith Anand <</span><a
href="mailto:Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif"
lang="EN-GB">Suchith.Anand@nottingham.ac.uk</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB">> wrote: </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydpc035e2ddyiv1740180125">
<div>
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydpc035e2ddyiv1740180125divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:12pt;color:black"
lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div
id="gmail-m_6799841764204156439x_ydpc035e2ddyiv1740180125x_divtagdefaultwrapper">
<p><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">I came across a
recent op-ed by Prof. Mariana
Mazzucato on “Digital
Feudalism” at</span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)"
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="font-stretch:normal"><a
href="https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/platform-economy-digital-feudalism-by-mariana-mazzucato-2019-10?utm_source=Project+Syndicate+Newsletter&utm_campaign=d192f2bc47-sunday_newsletter_6_10_2019&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_73bad5b7d8-d192f2bc47-105013549&mc_cid=d192f2bc47&mc_eid=a8cee90b20"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/platform-economy-digital-feudalism-by-mariana-mazzucato-2019-10?utm_source=Project+Syndicate+Newsletter&utm_campaign=d192f2bc47-sunday_newsletter_6_10_2019&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_73bad5b7d8-d192f2bc47-105013549&mc_cid=d192f2bc47&mc_eid=a8cee90b20</span></a><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(228,175,10)" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">Prof. Mazzucato is a
leading researcher and thinker
on Technology and Innovation,
advisor to the European
Commission on research and
innovation strategy, and author
of two important books on the
subject “The Value of
Everything” and
“The Entrepreneurial State”. </span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">The report on
“Mission-oriented Research and
Innovation in the European
Union” might be of interest</span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p style="font-stretch:normal"><a
href="https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/mazzucato_report_2018.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black"
lang="EN-GB">https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/mazzucato_report_2018.pdf</span></a><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(228,175,10)" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">Since the use of cloud
platforms for GIS data analysis
is having a huge impact on the
GIS community, the subject is of
relevance. </span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black">I
would like learn more on this </span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)"></span></p>
<ol start="1" style="margin-top:0cm"
type="1">
<li style="color:rgb(69,69,69)"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">Are there any examples of
Digital Feudalism in GIS? </span><span
style="font-size:9pt"
lang="EN-GB"></span></li>
<li
style="color:rgb(69,69,69);font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">How will Digital
Feudalism in GIS affect our
future generations?</span><span
style="font-size:9pt"
lang="EN-GB"></span></li>
<li
style="color:rgb(69,69,69);font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">What policies are
governments, regulators doing
to reduce Digital Feudalism in
GIS?</span><span
style="font-size:9pt"
lang="EN-GB"></span></li>
<li
style="color:rgb(69,69,69);font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">What policies and
curriculum are universities,
educators adopting to reduce
Digital Feudalism in GIS?</span><span
style="font-size:9pt"
lang="EN-GB"></span></li>
</ol>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">Best wishes,</span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="font-stretch:normal"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:black" lang="EN-GB">Suchith</span><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)"
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p
style="font-stretch:normal;min-height:14px"><span
style="font-size:9pt;color:rgb(69,69,69)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)" lang="EN-GB">necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. Email</span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)" lang="EN-GB">where permitted by law.</span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:rgb(38,40,42)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></pre>
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<p><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"
lang="EN-GB">_______________________________________________<br>
CODATA-international mailing list<br>
</span><a
href="mailto:CODATA-international@lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif"
lang="EN-GB">CODATA-international@lists.codata.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB"><br>
</span><a
href="http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif"
lang="EN-GB">http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
CODATA-international mailing list
<a href="mailto:CODATA-international@lists.codata.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">CODATA-international@lists.codata.org</a>
<a href="http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
CODATA-international mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CODATA-international@lists.codata.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">CODATA-international@lists.codata.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
CODATA-international mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CODATA-international@lists.codata.org">CODATA-international@lists.codata.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org">http://lists.codata.org/mailman/listinfo/codata-international_lists.codata.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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