[CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
Daureen Nesdill
daureen.nesdill at utah.edu
Mon Jan 10 11:08:16 EST 2022
Gee whiz. I’m in Mountain time so just noticed what I started.
To answer Florian’s question which reflects answers from others:
I tend to use research and not science. We have a College of Science on campus so using research is being inclusive. We already have competition between the medical side of campus with the rest of campus even though folks in Fine Arts and Social Science have NIH grants – in addition to Science and Engineering.
In addition, people are now attempting to use electronic research notebook instead of electronic lab notebook – but still using ELN.
Language is local until it is not
Daureen
From: CODATA-international <codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org> On Behalf Of Simon Hodson, ED CODATA
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 7:57 AM
To: CODATA <codata-international at lists.codata.org>
Subject: Re: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
I hesitate to get into this discussion again… though I do thank very much those people who hare contributed to the exchange.
I understand the inclusivity argument that Jonathan raises, and empirically he is right. There are a lot of colleagues in the humanities that feel excluded by the term Open Science being used as opposed to Open Research / Scholarship.
Nevertheless, I find that very feeling of exclusion itself somewhat frustrating. Full disclosure, my academic background is in history (and mostly history of political thought) so I come to this discussion from the perspective of what I think of as of the empirical humanities or a human science. I think the point made by Geoffrey about rigour and openness to scrutiny is valid and the terms research and scholarship don’t cut it in that respect. In my view, we don’t have to agree with all of Collingwood’s arguments about rethinking = reproducing, for example, to take the view that history is a science: it is rigorous, it is profoundly and consistently based on evidence, the conclusions can be scrutinised etc. I prefer to set the bar high for the social sciences and empirical humanities and to be inclusive in the definition of science that we use.
From a historical linguistic point of view, we should be aware of the various ‘moves’ (in the Skinnerian sense) to which the term science has been subject in the English language (notably in the late 18th century and the 20th century - e.g. C.P. Snow, Two Cultures) and therefore suitably sceptical about accepting the limitations in meaning they imply.
From a philosophic and epistemological point of view, the very real question is how much value we accord to definition of science as concerns with discerning laws and its predictive capacities. These are very high bars to set (epistemologically) and are not universally accepted as core to the definition of science - though of course there are and have been thinkers that have insisted on them. Personally, I think it is more coherent not to include these as definitions of science, which in turn allows the rigorous and scrutinisable work of social scientists and the empirical humanities to be included in our definition of science.
None of these remarks will end this discussion but I hope they are worth considering…
And a Happy New Year to you all!
S.
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On 10 Jan 2022, at 14:19, Jonathan Petters <jpetters at vt.edu<mailto:jpetters at vt.edu>> wrote:
For me the use of the terms 'Open science' or 'Open research' (or 'Open scholarship') depends on the audience and how inclusive we're trying to be.
The term 'Open science' is reasonably meaningful for STEM fields, but isn't really inclusive of the many arts and humanities folks at academic institutions that may be interested in open practices. 'Open research'/'Open scholarship' is a more inclusive term I think.
-Jon
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On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 6:51 AM Haslinger Florian <florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch<mailto:florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch>> wrote:
That Unesco report mentions ‘open research’ only as ‘open reseach data’ - which seems to be different than the understanding of ‘open research’ vs ‘open science’.
(and very pragmatically – in that context I care less about the definition of ‘science’ than about the definition / implication of ‘open’ …)
From: Berkman, Paul Arthur <pberkman at law.harvard.edu<mailto:pberkman at law.harvard.edu>>
Sent: Montag, 10. Januar 2022 12:36
To: Haslinger Florian <florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch<mailto:florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch>>; BOULTON Geoffrey <Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk<mailto:Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk>>
Cc: CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>; Paul BERKMAN <Paul.BERKMAN at unitar.org<mailto:Paul.BERKMAN at unitar.org>>; Berkman, Paul Arthur <pberkman at law.harvard.edu<mailto:pberkman at law.harvard.edu>>
Subject: RE: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
Importance: High
With respect for the various perspectives, this discussion seems to forget the significant efforts of the international scientific community (natural sciences, social sciences and Indigenous knowledge) that contributed to the UNESCO Recommendation on Open Science<https://www.unesco.org/en/natural-sciences/open-science>.
Prof. Paul Arthur Berkman
Fulbright Arctic Chair Norway 2021-2022<https://scidiplo.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/us-grantee-document-PR-PAUL-ARTHUR-BERKMAN-NORWAY-FULBRIGHT-ARCTIC-CHAIR-2021-22.pdf>
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From: CODATA-international <codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org>> On Behalf Of Haslinger Florian
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 12:24 PM
To: BOULTON Geoffrey <Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk<mailto:Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk>>
Cc: CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Subject: Re: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
In the context of the ‘open’ discussion, wouldn’t the important issue be to figure out the ‘practical differences’ between open research and open science (if there are any)?
There is a EU project resource that has ‘open reproducible research’ as one part of open science (and I wonder about the implications of ‘reproducible’ in this context): https://www.fosteropenscience.eu/FOSTER-taxonomy/open-science-definition<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.fosteropenscience.eu_FOSTER-2Dtaxonomy_open-2Dscience-2Ddefinition&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=pcc3NBoK2PpY5cPD7bgUloZiCoNNliKqBFicu5REGJM&e=>
I have the feeling that one could argue that ‘open research’ enforces the openness of data, methods, … more than ‘open science’ that would ‘just’ ask for the openness of the research results. To me that would be misleading, I would favor the interpretation that open science requires open research as one of its ingredients.
But perhaps the discussion comes really from the interpretation / understanding that ‘science’ is not necessarily including humanities and social sciences (and arts in the English language context…)? (that seems to be the gist of this Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_science<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Open-5Fscience&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=LRwdkqi2kjt54-tgg9BJgg0kq77jArlzUmYTJl3l3Nk&e=> )
If that’s the case, shouldn’t we better ensure that the meaning / definition of science becomes (again) inclusive, and keep the distinction of ‘research’ as a process contributing to science, thus have ‘open research’ as an element of ‘open science’?
Florian
From: BOULTON Geoffrey <Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk<mailto:Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk>>
Sent: Montag, 10. Januar 2022 12:05
To: BOULTON Geoffrey <Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk<mailto:Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk>>
Cc: Haslinger Florian <florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch<mailto:florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch>>; CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Subject: Re: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
Maybe the ISC position paper on "Science as a Global Public Good” (attached) might help. “Research as a Global Public Good” would not work. Why, because research is an activity, science is an outcome.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey Boulton OBE FRS FRSE
Regius Professor of Geology Emeritus
University of Edinburgh
Grant Institute, Kings Buildings
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On 10 Jan 2022, at 10:22, BOULTON Geoffrey <Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk<mailto:Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk>> wrote:
Just to break in, research and science are not synonymous. Science is s process that requires openness to scrutiny, but I can carryout research for my own purposes that is never made accessible for scrutiny. You can argue that “open research = science”, but I think that leads to severe semantic difficulties.
It's true that the word science in English, if used alone, tends to be used to refer primarily to natural science. Increasingly people use the word more broadly, in the sense of the German Wissenschaft.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey Boulton OBE FRS FRSE
Regius Professor of Geology Emeritus
University of Edinburgh
Grant Institute, Kings Buildings
Edinburgh EH9 3JW
Mob: 44 (0)7590978510
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On 10 Jan 2022, at 08:50, Haslinger Florian <florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch<mailto:florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch>> wrote:
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
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Hi Daureen,
Thanks for the links!
Quick question – why would you prefer the use of ‘open research’ rather than ‘open science’?
From all I could find, they should be ‘interchangeable’ (i.e. synonymous (really?)) ?
(I find the lack of clarity / authoritative definitions of the terms used in these discussions very frustrating – it allows too many easy escapes for my taste – so anything towards more strict definitions would be most appreciated.)
Thanks for any comments!
Kind regards,
Florian
From: CODATA-international <codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org>> On Behalf Of Daureen Nesdill
Sent: Freitag, 7. Januar 2022 19:29
To: Suchith Anand <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>>; CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Subject: Re: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
That is not all NASA is doing.
They are organizing the 2023 Year of Open Science
https://github.com/nasa/Transform-to-Open-Science<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_nasa_Transform-2Dto-2DOpen-2DScience&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=ZCYUpnAUZRBHK-sIksaggT3JNV76DSkqrTzkwehsES8&e=>
https://science.nasa.gov/open-science/transform-to-open-science<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__science.nasa.gov_open-2Dscience_transform-2Dto-2Dopen-2Dscience&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=-qxpQ3J51o8aTmDjwqOkxBFBDPv5JmZWt7saYvLIXGA&e=>
https://sparcopen.org/news/2022/nasa-year-of-open-science-set-to-launch-in-2023/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__sparcopen.org_news_2022_nasa-2Dyear-2Dof-2Dopen-2Dscience-2Dset-2Dto-2Dlaunch-2Din-2D2023_&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=VpmYt7JicxZpzf98RzLu7CWOH5vF2EwP3AMQnI7JYp8&e=>
Just wish they would say open research instead of open science
Daureen Nesdill MS MLIS
Research Data Management Librarian
Campus Administrator for Labarchives
https://campusguides.lib.utah.edu/labarchives/home<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__campusguides.lib.utah.edu_labarchives_home&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=zQ6Dy2gvAiAFaPATyvVNtMG54jghE9u236YGR1bUtMo&e=>
Please leave a message at 801-585-5975
From: CODATA-international <codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org>> On Behalf Of Suchith Anand
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 8:19 AM
To: CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Subject: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
Dear Colleagues,
This NASA study and workshops might be of interest. This is an opportunity to shape the next generation of Earth Observing missions that are currently in development.
Details at https://earthdata.nasa.gov/esds/open-science/oss-for-eso-workshops<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__earthdata.nasa.gov_esds_open-2Dscience_oss-2Dfor-2Deso-2Dworkshops&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=kpLJS7LfkSf7gLodQQ9R2F9kXFw1PnnUtyinpCqBF3w&m=6ypYgET9PrblW2x12oUfoKqcNyGn9FxDNgho1b3BJBSyx-69gL3WGBP0L-wG_cyf&s=muflkJNR0YIWu9FdGmHKu7XOXRmZPfjrCPxIu8T37O8&e=>
I would like to thank NASA colleagues for their contributions for open geospatial science.
Best wishes
Suchith
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Begin forwarded message:
From: BOULTON Geoffrey <Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk<mailto:Geoff.Boulton at ed.ac.uk>>
Subject: Re: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
Date: 10 January 2022 at 11:22:12 CET
To: Haslinger Florian <florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch<mailto:florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch>>
Cc: CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Just to break in, research and science are not synonymous. Science is s process that requires openness to scrutiny, but I can carryout research for my own purposes that is never made accessible for scrutiny. You can argue that “open research = science”, but I think that leads to severe semantic difficulties.
It's true that the word science in English, if used alone, tends to be used to refer primarily to natural science. Increasingly people use the word more broadly, in the sense of the German Wissenschaft.
Geoffrey
Geoffrey Boulton OBE FRS FRSE
Regius Professor of Geology Emeritus
University of Edinburgh
Grant Institute, Kings Buildings
Edinburgh EH9 3JW
Mob: 44 (0)7590978510
Website: www.geos.ed.ac.uk/homes/gboulton<http://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/homes/gboulton>
On 10 Jan 2022, at 08:50, Haslinger Florian <florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch<mailto:florian.haslinger at sed.ethz.ch>> wrote:
This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.
You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that the email is genuine and the content is safe.
Hi Daureen,
Thanks for the links!
Quick question – why would you prefer the use of ‘open research’ rather than ‘open science’?
From all I could find, they should be ‘interchangeable’ (i.e. synonymous (really?)) ?
(I find the lack of clarity / authoritative definitions of the terms used in these discussions very frustrating – it allows too many easy escapes for my taste – so anything towards more strict definitions would be most appreciated.)
Thanks for any comments!
Kind regards,
Florian
From: CODATA-international <codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org>> On Behalf Of Daureen Nesdill
Sent: Freitag, 7. Januar 2022 19:29
To: Suchith Anand <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>>; CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Subject: Re: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
That is not all NASA is doing.
They are organizing the 2023 Year of Open Science
https://github.com/nasa/Transform-to-Open-Science
https://science.nasa.gov/open-science/transform-to-open-science
https://sparcopen.org/news/2022/nasa-year-of-open-science-set-to-launch-in-2023/
Just wish they would say open research instead of open science
Daureen Nesdill MS MLIS
Research Data Management Librarian
Campus Administrator for Labarchives
https://campusguides.lib.utah.edu/labarchives/home
Please leave a message at 801-585-5975
From: CODATA-international <codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international-bounces at lists.codata.org>> On Behalf Of Suchith Anand
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 8:19 AM
To: CODATA International <codata-international at lists.codata.org<mailto:codata-international at lists.codata.org>>
Subject: [CODATA-international] Open Source Science for the Earth System Observatory
Dear Colleagues,
This NASA study and workshops might be of interest. This is an opportunity to shape the next generation of Earth Observing missions that are currently in development.
Details at https://earthdata.nasa.gov/esds/open-science/oss-for-eso-workshops
I would like to thank NASA colleagues for their contributions for open geospatial science.
Best wishes
Suchith
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